HANSARD 1803–2005 → 1860s → 1862 → March 1862 → 13 March 1862 → Commons Sitting → SUPPLY—POSTPONED RESOLUTION (BARRACKS AT HOME AND ABROAD) —SANDHURST COLLEGE.
Marauders, rapists, thieves and murders - The EVIL ENGLISH
Ia ratou, nga PAAHEA, he pokokohua, nga tangata paruparu, nga tangata tahae, nga tangata tinihanga, nga tangata i te mahi kino, i te mahi KOHURU!
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1862/mar/13/new-zealand-question#S3V0165P0_18620313_HOC_22
NEW ZEALAND.—QUESTION.
HC Deb 13 March 1862 vol 165 cc1441-9
MR. ADDERLEY said, he rose to ask the Under
Secretary of State for the Colonies, What is the nature of the new plan of
Native Administration proposed by the Governor of New Zealand; and whether the
Imperial Government will be free from responsibility for the scheme, and from
the Military and Civil Expenditure involved in its adoption; and, also, whether
the present number of Troops in that Colony is about to be reduced? He had
given notice of the question, as that was the last opportunity the House would
have during the present Session of considering the whole subject of the
military expenditure going on in New Zealand; and that time next year would be
too late for any consideration whatsoever of that important question. He wished
to have a full state meat from Her Majesty's Government of what was being done
in that colony There were 7,000 troops, besides the naval equipment, maintained
for local purposes entirely at the cost of this country. In the town of
Auckland the British troops formed a considerable portion of the entire
population. By a Resolution which the House had adopted a few nights
previously, it was decided that for the future the colonies of the country
should he responsible for the maintenance of order within their own boundaries.
No doubt, in assenting to that Resolution, the hon. Gentleman the Under
Secretary for the Colonies attempted to make an exception in favour of those
colonies in which the colonists had to deal with native tribes, and New Zealand
was so circumstanced; but the hon. Gentleman held out a prospect that immediate
steps would be taken to remove the exception by those colonies having full and
unrestricted powers given to their own legislatures to deal with all their own
affairs. He wished to know from the hon. Gentleman whether, in inaugurating a
new native policy in New Zealand, the Government was taking measures to give
effect to that principle? If the Government found themselves in any way impeded
by the Act which created the Constitution, he should then desire to know in
what manner the Act operated as an impediment, and whether the clause or
clauses having that, effect could not be repealed. It was essential, he
thought, for the interests of the colonists, and of the natives, that the new
policy should be left to the responsibility of the colonial administration, and
that a term should be placed to the wasteful and bloody system of interference
which had hitherto prevailed. The Governor of New Zealand had designed a
constitution for the natives, which was now in the hands of the Government. His
plan was to map out the territory of the natives into circuits, then to cut
them up into village districts. He proposed then to give each village district
a native council, to be presided over by the chief, in the presence of the
civil commissioner. The circuits were to have councils composed of the heads of
the district councils, and the Chief Civil Commissioner was to preside. Sir
George Grey proposed to maintain the right of the Crown to the waste lands, and
to establish a new system of colonization by Crown grants upon conditions of
occupancy and residence. The scheme was more creditable to the ingenuity of Sir
George Grey than promising for the peace of the colony. It was also very
doubtful whether, if adopted, it would lead to any diminution of the great
expenditure of this country in New Zealand. It was difficult to discover from
the Estimates the total expenditure in respect of any of the colonies, as the
items were scattered here and there. But an approximate estimate might be made
by taking the number of troops at present
in the colony. The number was 7,000, and at £100 a man, which was the average
expenditure, that would be £700,000. But he was informed, in a
letter from a leading public man in the colony, that the total cost of the
colony to this country was £960,000 a year, added to which there was the cost
of transport of troops, stores, and naval establishments, which made a total
demand upon the mother country, from New Zealand
alone, according to this gentleman's calculation, of at least a million and a
half per annum. That expense, it should be remembered, was the cost incurred in
respect of the colony by this country, and was exclusive of the losses arising
from the war, which fell upon the colonists, and which could not be less than
half a million per annum. The scheme of Sir George Grey would not lessen the
burden now borne by this country unless it was provided to transfer the whole
legislation and responsibility to the colony, and there did not appear to be
any intention or hope of doing that. The plan of mapping out native lands would
be a fertile cause of wars, and the local advisers of the Governor had pointed
that out to him, as well as the probability that the local councils would be in
frequent collision with the Government. But the presence of the Crown
Commissioners implicated the Government in all the native legislation, and
instituted a double government, which the colony for itself repudiated, saying,
"If you do this, it must be your own act, as representing the English
Government." Sir George replied that the English Government would be well
satisfied if they escaped paying tens of thousands on war, to spend a few
thousands a year in civilizing the natives. Even if Sir George Grey held out
any hope of decreasing the military expenditure to be borne by the mother
country, he still intended for us another expenditure for civilizing the
natives, the success of which scheme was very doubtful. Already in New Zealand
had Sir George Grey tried his civilization scheme, and had settled military
pensioners there; but nothing had been heard of them during the recent war.
Again, at the Cape Sir George Grey had induced this country, not only to
maintain a complete army, but also to make large Votes for civil expenditure
under the idea of civilizing the natives. No one had heard of any successful
result from that expenditure, which had been reduced of late by Parliament, and
which ought now to cease. He believed that Sir George Grey did not at all
contemplate saving any expense to the Imperial Government by this scheme of
his. It was stated before the colonial defences committee that negotiations had
been going on between the Imperial Government and the Government of New Zealand
for six years, to induce the Colonial Government to take on themselves some
small share of the expenditure, and the result was, that the Government of New
Zealand consented to pay to the Imperial Treasury £5 a head for all the
Imperial troops in the colony, leaving the taxpayers of this country to pay the
remaining £95. But bad as that offer was, even it had not been carried out, and
the whole expense of the troops in the colony was paid out of the Imperial
Treasury. And the colonists did not even thank us for what we had done. They
said, that as the Imperial Government kept in their own hands the government of
the Maories, they would not contribute to the support of Maori wars; but that
if left to themselves, they would soon find the means of putting a stop to
these wars. After all our expenditure on the score of philanthropy and of
liberality to the colonists, we found it said in the leading articles of their
papers, and the speeches of their leading men, that they did not consider the
late war to be either politic or just, and that whenever the subject was
discussed here we exhibited perfect ignorance of the origin and merits of the
war. When such were the criticisms passed in the colony, he asked the
Government whether they would not take that opportunity of putting an end to the
existing system. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for the
Colonies would tell him that the correspondence between the colony and his
department on the subject was yet incomplete. [Mr. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE: Hear,
hear!] If that were so, the answer was most unsatisfactory; for if the
Government were corresponding at all on the details of the plan, if they took
any part in this matter, there was an end of the last chance of checking this
interminable, bloody, and wasteful policy. He had hoped that the only answer of
the Government in reference to the plan proposed would have been, "This is
your affair; we have nothing to do with it. We cannot even advise you."
But if a correspondence was to go on, he should take an early opportunity of
asking the sense of the House upon the subject.
MR. CHICHESTER FORTESCUE said, that his right hon. Friend was quite
correct in supposing that on a former occasion he had, when replying to the
Motion of the hon. Member for Taunton, drawn what seemed to be the plain and
inevitable distinction between the expenses of maintaining internal
order—internal police—within colonies of British origin, and the expenses
entailed by the defence of British colonies against formidable native tribes
residing within their borders or upon their frontiers. That seemed to him to be
so obvious a distinction that he should have thought the right hon. Gentleman
must have felt that the principle which ought to be applied to the one was in
the very nature of things inapplicable to the other. The right hon. Gentleman
had spoken as if there were something new, extraordinary, and monstrous, in the
maintenance by this country of a certain body of troops in New Zealand for the
purpose of protecting the colonists against, the real and pressing danger by
which they were threatened. He would, however, remind the right hon. Gentleman
that, whether rightly or wrongly, it was the system which this country had
pursued for many generations, and under which New Zealand and other colonies
had sprung into existence. The House must not forget that New Zealand was an
infant colony, which sprang into existence twenty years ago under the
protection of this country, and up to about fourteen or fifteen years ago had
obtained an annual Parliamentary Vote towards its ordinary civil expenditure,
but which, like other colonies, was now being called upon to contribute towards
the maintenance of a military force. With the knowledge which he was bound to
possess on this subject, he must say he was startled to hear from the right
hon. Gentleman that the colonies of New Zealand not only did not ask the
protection of this country, but had denounced the presence of our troops there
as an insult and a burden, when the fact was that before the late troubles broke
out they had bitterly complained of the garrison having been for several years
cut down to a single regiment. The right hon. Gentleman, in support of his
view, had quoted the opinions of New Zealand papers and of various gentlemen
who, living in the southern island distant from the seat of war, were not
personally interested in the protection of life and property from native
dangers, but sat upon their seats with as much security as the right hon.
Gentleman himself, and who—if any interest were to be imputed to any one in the
matter—were interested in the continuance of the existing state of things in
the northern islands, because otherwise the stream of emigration might he
diverted from the south to the north. He (Mr. C. Fortescue) would ask whether the
opinions of those persons were to be placed in competition with the opinions of
the New Zealand Ministers for the last two years, and the great majority of the
New Zealand Assembly, who had given their cordial and hearty support to the
policy lately adopted by the Governor. It was a mis-statement of the case on
the part of the right hon. Gentleman to say that the expensive and melancholy
war in New Zealand had been deliberately promoted by the Government. There
could be no doubt that the Governor, acting nominally as the representative of
the Crown, but really acting in conjunction with his Ministers, did take
certain steps against a very talented and active chief, which, contrary to the
expectations and opinions of those who advised him, had led to these
unfortunate hostilities. The right hon. Gentleman now threatened the Government
with very serious consequences if they made themselves responsible for a plan
of native administration, which he had been informed had been drawn up by Sir
George Grey (the Governor) and his advisers, and which, he supposed, would
involve this country in greatly-increased expense. That plan had only been
received by his noble Friend the Secretary for the Colonies a few days before
the last mail left for New Zealand; but he might state that its object, so far
from being what had been supposed by the right hon. Gentleman, was to diminish
the risk of future native wars, to offer to the willing acceptance of the
natives a system of local self-government, to be worked out mainly by
themselves, and in districts not arbitrarily formed, but depending on the
tribal divisions of the natives, so as to satisfy that craving for law and
order which was one great cause of the King movement. The financial portion of
the plan, however, was so incomplete that the noble Duke the Colonial Secretary
had addressed a rigid inquiry to Sir George Grey as to the amount of effort and
exertion and the extent of pecuniary contribution which New Zealand would be
prepared to offer in order to carry out what appeared to be a large and costly
system of native administration, and also what the colony was prepared to do towards
repaying some of the expenses incurred in the late war. Her Majesty's
Government had not committed themselves to any responsibility for any portion
of Sir George Grey's plan, or the civil and military expenditure it might
entail. They had simply limited themselves to making requisitions for fuller
explanations, which they had a right to expect to enable them to judge of the
working of the plan. One part of the plan he (Mr. Fortescue) approved, and it
was an essential part of it—that the anomalous system under which the
responsible Government in New Zealand had been debarred from the management of
native affairs should be put an end to. The Governor had transferred these
duties to a responsible department, and he was now acting in regard to the
native affairs as in regard to other affairs of the colony. The right hon. Gentleman
appeared to have been informed by some members of the Ministry of Sir George
Grey that they entertained grave objections to the plan. But the plan had been
drawn up, he believed, with the approval of the Governor's responsible
Ministers; and it was most inconvenient that any member of that Ministry should
instruct the right hon. Gentleman to inform the House of Commons that the plan
in question had been condemned and objected to by Sir George Grey's Ministry.
The information of the Government was quite different from that placed at the
command of the right hon. Gentleman, and was, he trusted, more correct. The
right hon. Gentleman wanted to know whether the number of troops at present in
New Zealand would be reduced. Until the late unfortunate troubles the garrison
of New Zealand consisted only of a single regiment, and he trusted that the
policy adopted by Sir George Grey would tend to conciliate the native race, and
would supply them with that system of law and order which had long been
wanting, and which they had endeavoured to supply to themselves, so that they
might revert to a small garrison again. He could not, however, conceive a more
short-sighted policy than that which would withdraw the troops prematurely from
New Zealand. At that crisis of the relations between the colonists and the
native race, when the Government was disposed to make every concession to that
race consistent with their own good, it was absolutely necessary that the
natives should understand that it was through regard to their welfare, and not
through fear of their arms, that Her Majesty's Government were introducing the
proposed system. He earnestly hoped that the time would come before long when
the troops might be withdrawn, but he hoped the House would support Her Majesty's
Government in keeping them there at present.
MR. ROEBUCK said, that as time came round they were able to
draw conclusions with respect to their past policy which would be useful for
the future. He had the honour of a seat in that House when the colonization of
New Zealand took place, and he recollected that the question of the aborigines
then came under discussion. He startled the House and the Prime Minister of the
day (Sir Robert Peel)—who, it was said, had the faculty of assimilating other
men's ideas—by saying that experience had shown that wherever the white man put
down his foot by the side of the brown man the brown man disappeared. They
might put off the moment, but the time would come when the brown man would be
extinguished, and the sooner that consummation took place the better. All they
did by their pretended humanity was to extend the time in which he lingered in
his misery. We began our colonies always by an injustice. What right had we in
New Zealand? We put our foot there, we took the land from the natives, and then
with a sort of sanctimonious hypocrisy we turned round and said, "We know
that we do you an injury, but we will do you the least possible injury."
But there were certain persons, missionaries and others, who said, "We
will preach the Gospel to those people; we will make them Christians; we will
do all except do them justice. If we went away and allowed them to govern themselves
and inhabit their own country without interfering with them, we should do them
justice, but that we do not intend to do." They might depend upon it,
their mode of life, their habits, their thoughts, their European civilization
were destruction to the brown man. They signed his death-warrant when they put
their foot upon the shore of New Zealand, and therefore they could not pretend
to save him from the inevitable destruction which was coming upon him. And now
came the right hon. Gentleman and said, "Oh, withdraw your troops; it is a
great expense." Why, that expense was the very result of their mock humanity, their hypocrisy. Let the colonists be
left to themselves, let them not be troubled with our ideas of justice, and
they would settle the matter very quickly. For, what would they do? They would
take possession openly and avowedly of the whole colony, and would say to the
aborigines, "You must get away, and, if not, we will punish you."
But, instead of leaving the colonists alone, they were attempting to set up a
separate system of government from that of the colony; but then it had turned
out a failure; it could not continue, and now they were about doing what twenty
years ago he had advised them to do. Let there he no pretence, no hypocrisy.
They were going to create a new country, a new people, to plant European
civilization in the southern hemisphere. By so doing they would utterly destroy
the aboriginal population, The people of England would find that the plainest
policy was the best. They began with an injustice—they must take the
consequence of their evil deed, the evil deed of going to New Zealand at all,
which was to destroy the aboriginal race. His words would be called
"horrible," "cruel." Cruel they might be, but they were the
result of the past policy of the country. They had planted England in New
Zealand; the Englishman would destroy the Maori, and the sooner the Maori was
destroyed the better.
Marauders, rapists, thieves and murders - The EVIL ENGLISH
Ia ratou, nga PAAHEA, he pokokohua, nga tangata paruparu, nga tangata tahae, nga tangata tinihanga, nga tangata i te mahi kino, i te mahi KOHURU!
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1862/mar/13/new-zealand-question#S3V0165P0_18620313_HOC_22
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